Shattered Kingdoms

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Which options are best for acquiring and exciting NEW players?
Poll ended at Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:16 am
Make the game less difficult/more casual (methods to be discussed) 13%  13%  [ 31 ]
Make the game more interesting before Master (methods to be discussed) 13%  13%  [ 31 ]
Native clients for Facebook and/or Mobile 6%  6%  [ 14 ]
Revamp quests for transparency (better hinting, quest chains) 18%  18%  [ 43 ]
Out of game communication (Ex: CB/TB Channels on FB messenger, note boards via forums, email notifications for game events) 7%  7%  [ 17 ]
Tradeskills (forging, dyeing, mining, etc) 18%  18%  [ 42 ]
Decrease number of starting cities (easier to find and meet players) 7%  7%  [ 16 ]
Official info sharing (Wiki and/or Guide Forums) 18%  18%  [ 43 ]
Total votes : 237
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 Post subject: Re: Vote: Best changes to acquire/excite new players
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:43 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
Posts: 5610
Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
I'm still set on the theory that grep has just been trolling for the last 2 years.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote: Best changes to acquire/excite new players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:07 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:11 pm
Posts: 1068
Location: Probably Camping Losache
SK Character: Arkex, Chronis, Azoreth, Kyln
I wanna touch on the bounty idea.
From a lower level perspective, it would be good to have a reason to kill NPCs. "the hill tribes are attacking, take out some of their men so we can hold off this defense." (translate that into killing the salvarian children or some other lowbie training area) So yes, kill the leader of the salvarian children would give reason to go and train there. We just gotta figure out where to give these quests so that its not an annoying npc that you come across on a daily basis. maybe when you come from that 'amayoan mountain area' the npc that you do quests for there says "thanks for doing my quest. I heard someone at this tavern was looking for a favor." It would give you a reason to explore a city and a lvling area.
When you talk about fast track: sure, ppl with prior knowledge would maybe just skip the quest info and go straight to the 'hill tribe leader' but they dont get the benefit of the small quest exp. But as I said, this is for getting newer characters to explore. Again, maps would help. Drawn out or written like googlemaps landmarks. (start from the docks of menegroth, head west three leagues and then north five. See a tree and head northwest)

As for a more Vet kind of bounty system. What if you could go to your city and go to the judge. enter the command : bounty Wudan 400000(copper).
(command, player, coin, reasonString)
people could go to an inn, see a wanted poster and have a reason to go hunt. syntax: accept poster playerName.
If more people want him dead, they can add coin.
I think this idea has potential if it is developed and would possibly slow down the 'pk for no reason' kind of form of pvp.


A completely different idea dealing with the ooc sharing of game events. (the fb messenger thing was mentioned. I mentioned a twitter feed account)
If we could write notes to eachother and give it to some sort of sorceror mailman. They come out of an 'obviously different than normal' gate and say that they have some letters for you.
This would be an IC way to keep people who log different hours to stay in touch and up to date with orders or current events.

I also think the idea of a twitter feed that would say "Faction1's relic has been stolen by faction2" Would be alright. If we want to allow some sort of auto ooc alert to be sent out, we should consider what is acceptable and important info to be sent out to the entire population of sk.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Vote: Best changes to acquire/excite new players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:17 am 
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Immortal

Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:25 pm
Posts: 1500
SK Character: The Shining One
Actually, the woman in the Ayamaoan mountain area directs you to the amphitheater.

And I just this week added two quests in the Exile sewers that do exactly what you're saying. The first quest leads you to the second quest. After you finish his task, the second NPC tells you about the outpost, gives you directions, and even offers to train Sylvan tongue so you can talk to the guards when you get there.

In short: We're listening.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote: Best changes to acquire/excite new players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:28 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:11 pm
Posts: 1068
Location: Probably Camping Losache
SK Character: Arkex, Chronis, Azoreth, Kyln
"In short: we are listening."
Words can't express my thanks. You guys are awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote: Best changes to acquire/excite new players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:44 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm
Posts: 906
Meissa wrote:
Actually, the woman in the Ayamaoan mountain area directs you to the amphitheater.

And I just this week added two quests in the Exile sewers that do exactly what you're saying. The first quest leads you to the second quest. After you finish his task, the second NPC tells you about the outpost, gives you directions, and even offers to train Sylvan tongue so you can talk to the guards when you get there.

In short: We're listening.


Ran across that quest actually. First one I like, the second one, should not be done for a while. The NPCs that you want slayed are not for the level that is going to run across it. Especially with the hide that will wreck weapons. Thanks though!


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 Post subject: Re: Vote: Best changes to acquire/excite new players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:57 am 
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Implementor

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
Posts: 8206
Location: Redwood City, California
grep wrote:
The idea that PC's shouldn't be snowflakes and should be happy playing out as anything less than what they find incredibly fun to try is a malignant elitism that deserves to be crushed.

1. I completely disagree that you have to be a snowflake to have fun.
2. It's the snowflakes that are elitist.
3. Don't copy my lines.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote: Best changes to acquire/excite new players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:03 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm
Posts: 906
Dulrik wrote:
grep wrote:
The idea that PC's shouldn't be snowflakes and should be happy playing out as anything less than what they find incredibly fun to try is a malignant elitism that deserves to be crushed.

1. I completely disagree that you have to be a snowflake to have fun.
2. It's the snowflakes that are elitist.
3. Don't copy my lines.


Being elitist is saying that you can't be a snowflake or non-snowflake. What you said was being elitist, D.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote: Best changes to acquire/excite new players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:16 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:06 am
Posts: 1447
Location: Seattle
SK Character: Theodoric
Galactus... I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.

e·lit·ist wrote:
adjective
1.
favoring, advocating, or restricted to an elite.
"the old, elitist image of the string quartet"
synonyms: aristocratic, snobbish, snobby, superior, supercilious;


Implying that not being a snowflake is "anything less than what they find incredibly fun" is an elitist statement. It suggests that people who play characters within the normal expected boundaries of the games rule set are somehow missing out on "incredible fun" which is quite the judgment to pass on the majority of us.

Pathological snowflake players (those who -only- choose to play characters that bend and break the normal expected boundaries) are at the very least selfish and probably do in fact fit the definition of "elitist" as they seem to believe that their minority view of the way the game should be played is superior to the vision of the game admin and the rules accepted by majority of the playerbase.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote: Best changes to acquire/excite new players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:36 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:50 pm
Posts: 5522
Dulrik wrote:
grep wrote:
The idea that PC's shouldn't be snowflakes and should be happy playing out as anything less than what they find incredibly fun to try is a malignant elitism that deserves to be crushed.

1. I completely disagree that you have to be a snowflake to have fun.
2. It's the snowflakes that are elitist.
3. Don't copy my lines.


3. Sorry, it was a good line. Imitation and flattery and all that...
2. I like to settle for an idea being elitist, not an entire person for having it.
1. Sometimes, a designer is faced with the possibility of capitulating to fans, players, or standards that he or she may not agree with. I guess the question is whether people having fun is fun to you, and then looking at how to not get in the way of that happening.


patrisaurus wrote:
Galactus... I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.

e·lit·ist wrote:
adjective
1.
favoring, advocating, or restricted to an elite.
"the old, elitist image of the string quartet"
synonyms: aristocratic, snobbish, snobby, superior, supercilious;




Code:
  'Elite \['E]`lite"\ ([=a]`l[=e]t"), n. [F., fr. ['e]lire to
     choose, L. eligere. See Elect.]
     1. A choice or select body; the flower; as, the ['e]lite of
        society.
        [1913 Webster]
 
     2. See Army organization, Switzerland.
        [Webster 1913 Suppl.]

  Aristocracy \Ar`is*toc"ra*cy\, n.; pl. Aristocracies. [Gr. ?;
     ? best + ? to be strong, to rule, ? strength; ? is perh. from
     the same root as E. arm, and orig. meant fitting: cf. F.
     aristocratie. See Arm, and Create, which is related to
     Gr. ?.]
     1. Government by the best citizens.
        [1913 Webster]
 
     2. A ruling body composed of the best citizens. [Obs.]
        [1913 Webster]
 
              In the Senate
              Right not our quest in this, I will protest them
              To all the world, no aristocracy.     --B. Jonson.
        [1913 Webster]
 
     3. A form a government, in which the supreme power is vested
        in the principal persons of a state, or in a privileged
        order; an oligarchy.
        [1913 Webster]
 
              The aristocracy of Venice hath admitted so many
              abuses, trough the degeneracy of the nobles, that
              the period of its duration seems approach. --Swift.
        [1913 Webster]
 
     4. The nobles or chief persons in a state; a privileged class
        or patrician order; (in a popular use) those who are
        regarded as superior to the rest of the community, as in
        rank, fortune, or intellect.
        [1913 Webster]


Looks pretty spot-on to me: the idea that a certain ideas are okay and certain ideas are not based on the measuring stick of certain people and tradition and not, in fact, on Rule 0 means that some people's ideas of interesting or fun concepts are invalidated by the opinions of those in positions of creative power. Some people have enjoyed lenient interpretations by immortals, however, and probably haven't ever felt the uninviting assault of so many bricks in so many walls.

patrisaurus wrote:
Pathological snowflake players (those who -only- choose to play characters that bend and break the normal expected boundaries) are at the very least selfish and probably do in fact fit the definition of "elitist" as they seem to believe that their minority view of the way the game should be played is superior to the vision of the game admin and the rules accepted by majority of the playerbase.


If these threads have shown us anything, it is that the majority views of the playerbase might not necessarily be the official nor the most repeated lines of a few over-indulged trolls. Just look at what happened in this poll: the feature Dulrik was most excited about adding to the game has become the least-favored option in this poll at the time I checked.

As for snowflakes, I'm willing to suppose that my definition of snowflake is probably different from the pejorative term used by other people. The Bilbo and Aragon references are fitting, but it is also important to consider that Aragorn rolled human and somehow decided that he'd be a shiny human or something by going with the Dunedain sub-species and being the last of the line of Isildur. Bilbo might have been the better example, but even he in practice gets to live longer and boast a special background and precedents when compared to others of his kin. They both get to act unlike their typical counterparts, which means going against their help files. They just happened to do so in a way that told a story, but they're still bending the rules by being somewhat singular. If all of their kin were just like them, neither Bilbo nor Aragon would have been able to have the story they did. They had to be special for it to work. QED snowflakes.

Maybe I should've said that each PC should be a protagonist? Snowflake seems to be too charged a word with the old guard.


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 Post subject: Re: Vote: Best changes to acquire/excite new players
PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:51 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm
Posts: 906
patrisaurus wrote:
Galactus... I'm not sure that word means what you think it means.

e·lit·ist wrote:
adjective
1.
favoring, advocating, or restricted to an elite.
"the old, elitist image of the string quartet"
synonyms: aristocratic, snobbish, snobby, superior, supercilious;


Implying that not being a snowflake is "anything less than what they find incredibly fun" is an elitist statement. It suggests that people who play characters within the normal expected boundaries of the games rule set are somehow missing out on "incredible fun" which is quite the judgment to pass on the majority of us.

Pathological snowflake players (those who -only- choose to play characters that bend and break the normal expected boundaries) are at the very least selfish and probably do in fact fit the definition of "elitist" as they seem to believe that their minority view of the way the game should be played is superior to the vision of the game admin and the rules accepted by majority of the playerbase.


I must have misstated myself. The point is that you are elitist if you think that snowflakes shouldn't be made, and you are elitist if you think more 'traditional' models shouldn't be made. Thereby properly confirming the definition. The anti-snowflakes and the anti-traditionalists are both elitists.


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