Shattered Kingdoms

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 Post subject: Re: Questions about the game
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:01 pm 
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Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
Thuban, on that post you linked and with regard to the scenario I mentioned above...
Thuban wrote:
If you wish to engage in PvP against someone who doesn't fit the above criteria, you absolutely must take time to role-play with them first. They must understand that they are being targeted and have a chance to enjoy some role-play with you before you take their head off.
If this is your stance, you should really revise the helpfile which does not, in a reasonable reading, imply that you have to announce your intentions to murder someone before you murder them. Yes, you should RP in that you shouldn't knowingly run up onto a PC and attempt to kill them without any meaningful interaction, but I don't think that the current helpfile indicates that you have to clearly demonstrate IC that your goals are sinister before attempting a kill. There's plenty of leeway to assume that you could, for example, say "Hey, nice ring. Can I buy it?" And if they say no, to lead them into a trap, for example.

According to the quoted text from you above, my scenario above where a evil person interacts with someone and then hits them with a surprise attack would be against the rules. I don't think the helpfile makes that clear, and to be honest I think that removing the possibility for evil characters or even good characters to make surprise attacks is wrong; If anything it's very sensible to think that isn't the case, otherwise the parts of the paladin code and hellion code that require them to declare attacks before they issue them is redundant.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about the game
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 5:06 am
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SK Character: Theodoric
Thuban wrote:
patrisaurus wrote:
1) Can a diabolic still kill someone without openly announcing to that person what they're about to do?
1a) Can a Hammer of Light still kill evil characters without telling them it's coming?

They can if other conditions are met as explained here. If at least one of those conditions is not met, then no.


Thuban, I read these conditions and I want to confirm my understanding.

1) A non-tribunal/cabal diabolic human character will be punished(deleted?) if they see another human character with gear they like and just murder them and take it without interacting other than "look xxx" or "c locate xxx" beforehand.

1a) A hammer of light human character will be punished (deleted?) for killing a deep-elf on sight without previous interaction other than "charge delf".


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about the game
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 1:43 pm 
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patrisaurus wrote:
Thuban, I read these conditions and I want to confirm my understanding.

1) A non-tribunal/cabal diabolic human character will be punished(deleted?) if they see another human character with gear they like and just murder them and take it without interacting other than "look xxx" or "c locate xxx" beforehand.

1a) A hammer of light human character will be punished (deleted?) for killing a deep-elf on sight without previous interaction other than "charge delf".

That is correct, unless the Hammer of Light character in question is an elf. The deletion option generally only happens after repeated violations, however.

In answer to this and Edoras's previous post, if you want to play a character that surprise attacks people and runs around killing without prior RP, just make an elf or deep-elf and go crazy with racial/internal enmity (elves can kill deep-elves, deep-elves can kill elves, deep-elves can kill deep-elves). Or make a character that hates a certain tribunal or all tribunals and then attack tribunal members on sight. There are plenty of ways to make surprise-attack oriented characters and play in a way that relieves you of the requirement to directly engage people in RP before killing them. People who play elves or deep-elves and people who join tribunals are signing up for an extra dose of PvP. Attackers in these cases will face whatever IC consequences come from their actions, but they will be playing by the rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about the game
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:34 pm 
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So if I make a neutral human who collects scripted gear, I can make it a storage character with impunity as long as I dont join a faction.

I cant rp a murderous bandit afaik because that is griefing and if I initiate perceived under-rpd pk twice ( repeat offender) I get deleted?

I would honestly like some clarification.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about the game
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:44 pm 
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If I make a post saying in a more RPish way "be wary of me if you carry sick loot" will that suffice as blanket "sufficient prior rp" to avoid deletion?

What if somebody pays my character to kill another character I've never interacted with, and I do it and junk loot them with no more than a "cackle" after? That seems like solid RP to me but would it get me deleted?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about the game
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 7:30 pm 
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jreid_1985 wrote:
So if I make a neutral human who collects scripted gear, I can make it a storage character with impunity as long as I dont join a faction.

I cant rp a murderous bandit afaik because that is griefing and if I initiate perceived under-rpd pk twice ( repeat offender) I get deleted?

I would honestly like some clarification.
There's nothing stopping anyone from sending a tell to anyone else saying "Hey, nice stuff you got there, either hand it over or die" and then acting on that premise, so no, a neutral human who collects scripted gear cannot be a storage character unless you log out at the first sign of hostility: At which point nothing has really changed.

According to what Thuban's posted, if you're engaging in PK that you recognize will not have any RP with your target beforehand, you should be certain to RP with the person before you try to kill them, even if your RP is just through tells. It wouldn't be a bad idea to log that interaction also just in case. You can RP a murderous bandit, but not one who acts like an NPC bandit that aggro's any PC that walks near you regardless of their affiliation.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about the game
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:54 pm 
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Im still not sold on the ability to play a murderous bandit. The playstyle simply violates the golden rule regardless of pre or post pk interactions. You are murdering and stealing and in this delicate state of the game, I think this could be considered griefing.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about the game
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:31 am 
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I know that you -should- know better, and I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on that point.

It is a new enforcement to state that you have to RP with someone, including the fact that you are aggressive against them, before attacking them. However, if that state is enforced and encouraged, I honestly think that it is very -good- for the game: As long as it's done consistently. I would really like to see the helpfile updated however, as an honest reading of it from my perspective really doesn't reflect that you have to RP your hostility before PK.

Personally, I would like to be able to tell people that I recommend this game to "Yes, the game is open PvP, but unless you play a deep-elf/elf or join a tribunal, it's against the rules for someone to kill another PC without any prior RP." It's honestly one of the primary concerns that people from other muds that I've recommended SK to have: When I tell them "PK is unrestricted" their next question is almost always "Doesn't that mean that anyone can just decide to ruin my day and there's nothing I can do about it? No thanks, I'm not a PK-minded player and I'm not interested in being at the mercy of someone who just wants to rack up kills."

If you roll a murderous bandit that kills everyone he sees without warning and takes all their belongings just because he's a greedy SOB, then you are, without a doubt, going to lower the quality of RP in the game as well as drive away new and potentially old players. On the other hand, if you're the kind of person who consistently threatens people with death if they don't give all of their fancy stuff and/or coin to him, and only kills people that either run or refuse to give into his demands, then you're at least including some possibility for roleplay to come out of the situation other than "spit."

Take with that what you will. I don't feel bad that, as a Hammer character, I'm obligated to tell a PC deep-elf that I've never seen to "get out of my sight before I send you to the river" before charging at them. Maybe I don't mind it as much because I already have the playstyle of not PKing people I've never interacted with beforehand.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about the game
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:42 am 
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SK Character: Theodoric
Edoras, with all due respect, I didn't ask for your opinions on whether any changes that have been made since I last played are good or bad. Glad you're having a good time. Hope we wind up opposite sides, don't think we've ever really played against each other.

Still looking for direct answers to help me understand the MUD I'm playing today.

patrisaurus wrote:
If I make a post saying in a more RPish way "be wary of me if you carry sick loot" will that suffice as blanket "sufficient prior rp" to avoid deletion?

What if somebody pays my character to kill another character I've never interacted with, and I do it and junk loot them with no more than a "cackle" after? That seems like solid RP to me but would it get me deleted?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions about the game
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:23 am 
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patrisaurus wrote:
If I make a post saying in a more RPish way "be wary of me if you carry sick loot" will that suffice as blanket "sufficient prior rp" to avoid deletion?

No.

patrisaurus wrote:
What if somebody pays my character to kill another character I've never interacted with, and I do it and junk loot them with no more than a "cackle" after? That seems like solid RP to me but would it get me deleted?

This would result in punishment unless some other previously mentioned condition designed to accommodate the kill/junk/cackle play style were met.


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