Shattered Kingdoms

Where Roleplay and Tactics Collide
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 Post subject: Re: Factions and 'Defeat'
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:47 pm
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SK Character: Amorette
Just going to step in to say if anyone thinks there is IMM bias in favor of the Harlequins, they're crazy.


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 Post subject: Re: Factions and 'Defeat'
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:52 pm 
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ladyjennbo wrote:
Just going to step in to say if anyone thinks there is IMM bias in favor of the Harlequins, they're crazy.

I agree on this. But there's also no bias against them either.


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 Post subject: Re: Factions and 'Defeat'
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:11 pm
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SK Character: Arkex, Chronis, Azoreth, Kyln
ladyjennbo wrote:
Just going to step in to say if anyone thinks there is IMM bias in favor of the Harlequins, they're crazy.


That's not what I was saying. I wasn't talking about favoritism. I was talking about being misinformed and only getting part of the story. Does that clarification make sense to you?

The harlies stomped out. Hard. It's undeniable. I tip my hat. Acknowledgment where acknowledgment is earned.


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 Post subject: Re: Factions and 'Defeat'
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:36 am 
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I'll comment not because I'm involved in this, but because I've seen another MUD's war going too far. Truce agreements are often overrated. A few people that go overboard can be punished, but that fails when the general population is involved.

Keep in mind, the winning side isn't making outrageous demands because they expect them to happen, but because they want to keep fighting. How happy are they going to be with a forced truce? And often, some members on the weaker side want to keep fighting regardless. Someone's going to find an excuse to restart the war. We aren't going to police roleplay enough to stop that, and SK wouldn't be the same if we did.

When players feel harassed by conflict, a better solution is to limit the damage PCs can do. That people won't RP devastation at being killed is an example of limiting damage. As in, no, I'm not going to change how my character interacts because of someone's easy kill. This can be taken too far, but I regard it as healthy. If you want to achieve RP objectives, you should have to participate in meaningful RP as well as PK. It's the obligation of the winning faction to turn that PK success into an RP victory; the losing faction should retain veto power.

If there's going to be any change to rules, I suggest helping weak factions, so they can roleplay conflict without constant direct combat. For example, CRS is here to stay, but there could be a bonus for winning instead of a penalty for losing.


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 Post subject: Re: Factions and 'Defeat'
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:37 am 
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Well I've been gone a while, but there were short term benefits for successfully defending your relic. Slayne and 1 of my characters used to go at it. Often it was Mika versus the MC. When she'd win the defense, the hammer would receive a bonus for the defense. Are you suggesting something greater?


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 Post subject: Re: Factions and 'Defeat'
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:51 am 
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Forsooth wrote:
For example, CRS is here to stay, but there could be a bonus for winning instead of a penalty for losing.

As zelenik just said, there IS a bonus for successfully defending or attacking (assuming you aren't ninja ganking) and has been for ages.


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 Post subject: Re: Factions and 'Defeat'
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:00 am 
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Forsooth wrote:
Keep in mind, the winning side isn't making outrageous demands because they expect them to happen, but because they want to keep fighting. How happy are they going to be with a forced truce? And often, some members on the weaker side want to keep fighting regardless. Someone's going to find an excuse to restart the war. We aren't going to police roleplay enough to stop that, and SK wouldn't be the same if we did.


Not sure if you were referring to imm or players policing a truce but as a leader if one of my ppl breaks a truce that hurts my faction they're out and I'd attempt to fix the truce.


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 Post subject: Re: Factions and 'Defeat'
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:26 pm 
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Unknown Armies, Second Edition wrote:
Somewhere out there is someone who had loving parents, watched clouds on a summer's day, fell in love, lost a friend, is kind to small animals, and knows how to say 'please' and 'thank you,' and yet somehow the two of you are going to end up in a dirty little room with one knife between you and you are going to have to kill that human being.

It’s a terrible thing. Not just because he’s come to the same realization and wants to survive just as much as you do, meaning he’s going to try and puncture your internal organs to set off a cascading trauma effect that ends with you voiding your bowels, dying alone and removed from everything you've ever loved. No, it’s a terrible thing because somewhere along the way you could have made a different choice. You could have avoided that knife, that room, and maybe even found some kind of common ground between the two of you. Or at least, you might have divvied up some turf and left each other alone. That would've been a lot smarter, wouldn’t it? Even dogs are smart enough to do that. Now you’re staring into the eyes of a fellow human and in a couple minutes one of you is going to be vomiting to the rhythm of a fading heartbeat. The survivor is going to remember this night for the rest of his or her life.


Objective, static alignment might just be one of the contributing factors to a systemic disregard for others observed in some characters. How violence and death are treated by systems often seems correlated with how theses systems treat morality and personhood.


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 Post subject: Re: Factions and 'Defeat'
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:18 pm 
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zelenik wrote:
Well I've been gone a while, but there were short term benefits for successfully defending your relic. Slayne and 1 of my characters used to go at it. Often it was Mika versus the MC. When she'd win the defense, the hammer would receive a bonus for the defense. Are you suggesting something greater?


That there's a benefit for succeeding in PK, doesn't much help groups so weak that they struggle with PK. I was thinking more of cabals not losing powers because of a relic loss. Such a change could mean a successful raid needs more positive benefits. But I admit I'm out-of-date on CRS mechanics. That's why I'm trying to stick to generalities.

grep wrote:
Objective, static alignment might just be one of the contributing factors to a systemic disregard for others observed in some characters. How violence and death are treated by systems often seems correlated with how theses systems treat morality and personhood.


The MUD with major war problems didn't have an alignment system, so it's hard to blame static alignment for this. It's true that static alignment encourages confrontation more than diplomacy, but that's not a bad thing in an RP/PK game. The goal isn't peace, but helping players have fun even when their faction is ICly unsuccessful.


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