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Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
https://www.shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=25051		 Page 4 of 6
Author:  Sadr (2015) [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
Valkyrion wrote:
Here is a question I've been wondered since day one. Lets say you are white aura and outlawed in a kingdom (North for instance) and since you are outlawed there you are unable to request items from those wandering stoic paladins that roams the wilderness because they deem you a lawbreaker. Are lighties permitted to challenge them to a duel to stun and take said items? Cause ICly it makes no sense they would deny you an item for being outlawed for fighting evil.


No, it is not okay.
Author:  Valkyrion [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
Sadr wrote:
Valkyrion wrote:
Here is a question I've been wondered since day one. Lets say you are white aura and outlawed in a kingdom (North for instance) and since you are outlawed there you are unable to request items from those wandering stoic paladins that roams the wilderness because they deem you a lawbreaker. Are lighties permitted to challenge them to a duel to stun and take said items? Cause ICly it makes no sense they would deny you an item for being outlawed for fighting evil.


No, it is not okay.


Why would a lightie NPC not give another lightie an item because they are wanted for killing undead? I understand the request thing bit it makes no IC sense that the NPC wouldn't lend another lightie said item for being wanted for killing evil.

I also assume having another request it, and giving it to another NPC so it can be requested that way is also wrong?
Author:  Sadr (2015) [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
Valkyrion wrote:
Why would a lightie NPC not give another lightie an item because they are wanted for killing undead? I understand the request thing bit it makes no IC sense that the NPC wouldn't lend another lightie said item for being wanted for killing evil.

I also assume having another request it, and giving it to another NPC so it can be requested that way is also wrong?


As the helpfile now explicitly states, the latter assumption is correct.

See the entire second paragraph of help principled as to possible reasoning for the issue. The plain fact is that request is enough of a boon - the very few circumstances it's impeded by such weird or difficult circumstances (which are by far the exception instead of the rule) will be explained away with whatever RP is required to (and there's plenty of options to choose from).

The alternative is to let no lighties request from these NPCs (which is far more easily explained by RP of a paladin in foreign land), not allow you to request while outlawed.

Side note: THE NEW RULE HELPFILES ARE NOW LIVE.
Author:  Valkyrion [ Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
That's just simply [REDACTED] and poor RP from the NPC. So because I kill an undead as a Paladin another paladin NPC that happens to be in that Kingdom won't let me request from him.... How messed up is that? Makes no sense at all. Seems like a coding error even though there likely isn't a way to change such a code. May as well just up and remove the ability to request period, or make all Kingdom lawless.

Paladin sayto paladin 'Sorry I can't give you said item because you killed a wight.'

Way to go.
Author:  Edoras [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
So... because there's a handful of light-aura NPCs in dark-aura territories, we should remove request altogether or make all kingdoms lawless.

Riiiight.

Here's another possibility. Maybe your paladin character should stop being such a grabby hands McGee. When your paladin encounters a fellow paladin trudging through the biting snow with the sole purpose of killing all undead he sees (of which there is plenty) and your first inclination is to go "Those vambraces look sweet, can I have them?" and get mad when he says no, then maybe the one with the poor RP is you.
Author:  woahboy [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
The Empire needs to conquer Cain Techt.
Author:  Yed [ Tue Oct 28, 2014 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
Valkyrion wrote:
That's just simply [REMOVED] and poor RP from the NPC. So because I kill an undead as a Paladin another paladin NPC that happens to be in that Kingdom won't let me request from him.... How messed up is that? Makes no sense at all. Seems like a coding error even though there likely isn't a way to change such a code. May as well just up and remove the ability to request period, or make all Kingdom lawless.

Paladin sayto paladin 'Sorry I can't give you said item because you killed a wight.'

Way to go.



I would suggest that is has nothing to do with killing an undead. You have broken the law in a kingdom and you are considered a law-breaker. This paladin is principled. These are obviously the principles that paladin is addressing, the principles of law and order. Your character is part of the elite 1% in the world and recognizes how corrupt that government is, but maybe this particular paladin NPC isn't as educated as the 1% in world politics. You're an outlaw. His principles won't allow him to help you until you have paid for your crime.


Although there is some validity in your argument, sometimes you simply have to accept the limitations that exist in a hard-coded environment. Sometimes you just need to suck it up and accept that while perhaps there might be a minor inconvenience that exists in that specific scenario, there are a lot bigger fish to fry, and you should just let that one roll off your back, because... really, dude? Seriously? There's a long list of imperfections that we'd all like to address in this imperfect world, and we really don't need to cry over every drop of spilled milk. Call it suspension of disbelief if you need to, call it good sportsmanship if you need to, call it just having the serenity to accept some things that you cannot change, and smile.

:)
Author:  ninja_ardith [ Wed Oct 29, 2014 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
Edoras wrote:
So... because there's a handful of light-aura NPCs in dark-aura territories, we should remove request altogether or make all kingdoms lawless.

Riiiight.

Here's another possibility. Maybe your paladin character should stop being such a grabby hands McGee. When your paladin encounters a fellow paladin trudging through the biting snow with the sole purpose of killing all undead he sees (of which there is plenty) and your first inclination is to go "Those vambraces look sweet, can I have them?" and get mad when he says no, then maybe the one with the poor RP is you.


Maybe they're both wrong? It's hard to see how the typical SK character, in the us vs them mentality, goes on a Columbine inspired school shooting spree in another nation. Mostly because he disagrees with their views in the use of undead. Then he has some crisis of conscience because someone is a lawbreaker in that nation. NPCs are people too, and they shouldn't be so idiotic.

This is like that paladin NPC in the wastelands that is blind. The lightie that wants to use his gear tries to request it. Request checks to see if the NPC can actually see the item in question. Since he cannot see it, he claims he does not have it.

It goes something like this:

"Hey, can I use that sweet sword you're using?"

"The one in my hands?"

"Yes."

"I cannot see this sword, therefore I do not have such a thing. Sorry, sir."

Lightie decides to roleplay a duel and stun the NPC. This is done outside the duelist's guild because you cannot challenge NPCs to duels. They stun the NPC and take the item. I've always felt that approach a little sketchy at best, but essentially the code does give you the middle finger.
Author:  Thuban [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
It was not clear to everyone that if you are an outlaw somewhere, that constitutes "prior RP" and the members of the tribunal where you are an outlaw are free to engage in PvP with you as they see fit, in accordance with their own characters' RP demands and the rules. It constitutes prior RP because your character has made choices that have given the tribunal members in question a legitimate IC reason to engage in PvP against your character, and it should generally be obvious to you, or at least easy to learn, that you are an outlaw.

Please let me know if there are any further questions on this topic.
Author:  Thuban [ Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
A question paraphrased from a prayer:

Q: I plan to have another PC kill me because an item I have is cursed and we wish to keep it that way. It is not my intent to cheat. This is a tactic that has been used for ages. If this is bug abuse, please let me know.

A: I spoke to Dulrik about this. He does not consider this bug abuse, but said, "I consider this poor RP worthy of a penalty. No character should ever willingly accept their own death, much less for EQ."

On a side note, I am aware that there are quests in the game that require your character to die. Seeing as how those quests are RP-oriented toward spiritual journeys and hand out XP awards to characters that complete them, Rule 10 implies that these are valid exceptions to the above ruling by Dulrik.

EDIT: Just so it's clear, I will not be retroactively enforcing this against the player who raised this question or anyone else, but it will be enforced according to Dulrik's ruling going forward.
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