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 Post subject: Adventurer's Guild - Note from Paeru
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:48 pm
Posts: 277
Paeru wrote:
Please be aware that we have received complaints that people have been
leaving items from our Adventurer's Guild storeroom in inaccessible
locations. If you make a habit of doing this, your membership in the Guild
and access to all Guild items and shops will be permanently revoked.


I have it on good authority Paeru isn't known for kidding around about such things, so seriously, make sure you're not trying to deprive others of access to storeroom materials.


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 Post subject: Re: Adventurer's Guild - Note from Paeru
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:11 pm
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Location: Probably Camping Losache
SK Character: Arkex, Chronis, Azoreth, Kyln
So, I like the RP aspect of it coming from Paeru. But maybe some strict ooc guidelines would help for clarity. I don’t want to see someone get slapped because the misunderstood.

Stashing Wands on guards. Is that okay? They is technically “obtainable.”
Dropping them in a uncommon room in a major city. Is that okay?
Burying them somewhere outside the city gates. Is that okay?

What specific actions led to paeru layin down the law?


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 Post subject: Re: Adventurer's Guild - Note from Paeru
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 8:43 am
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Location: Rochester, NY
SK Character: Borren, Jerel
I'm sure there's a spectrum from malicious to strategic, the closer you are to the former the more likely you are to get pinned.


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 Post subject: Re: Adventurer's Guild - Note from Paeru
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 7:29 am 
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I just think absolute clarity would be best to avoid any confrontation regarding this issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Adventurer's Guild - Note from Paeru
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 10:58 pm 
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I would basically say smurf has it right on this one. This isn't Algorab saying I'm handing out curses, it's an IC benefit that is earned per character and given with some general expectations. So, if the expectation is you're not depriving each other of those benefits, don't do things that would do that.

Why not let them just go away when you log out? If the answer is because you're logging off for five minutes to go do something else I can understand the reasoning behind dropping them somewhere to save yourself some hassle, but what happens when you forget to log back in because life happens? What if you were in a high-level hard to access zone? What happens when something that isn't intended with malice starts impacting other characters and their players?

The safe play is just let them go away when they are designed to go away. Stashing them somewhere completely inaccessible is obviously more problematic than easily accessible, but again, they really shouldn't be stashed at all.

Put more generally, treat it like a real person/organization. If they have a broad rule to follow in exchange for some form of compensation, you'll get further avoiding that rule entirely than asking for clarification in specific instances. For those instances you mentioned do you mind if I turn it around and ask you what would make them acceptable in the eyes of an adventuring guild providing assistance to those looking for adventure?

"It would be acceptable to the adventurer's guild to take the wands from the adventurer's guild and stash them on guards because..."
"It would be acceptable to bury items from the adventurer's guild to stash them underground because..."

or maybe it would make more sense as a single question

"Items from the adventurer's guild don't just stay in my inventory when I log out because..."

I wouldn't want to be the person explaining to Paeru that I have made a habit of disregarding him because it was more convenient, and I think that's the key word being overlooked here. Habit. You can speed a little most the time, but if you make a habit of testing the limit higher and higher you're going to get caught speeding sooner or later and you better be willing to accept the consequences, or have a lot better excuse than convenience.

Who knows, it's a fantasy world, maybe Paeru hasn't heard the "really had to pee" excuse yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Adventurer's Guild - Note from Paeru
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:54 pm 
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I guess the speeding reference makes sense. And that’s fair.
I just don’t want to see things blow up if/when the first person feels like they’ve been unfairly removed from the guild. Because this seems fairly objective. Maybe I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the Rules Manager of old, when interpretation of the rules was a big controversy. Hence my request for straight-forward, well-defined guidelines.

I think giving tribunal guards one set of Wands would be acceptable. Because it would allow your tribunal members to have an advantage. Maybe we could increase the count to three of each wand instead of two, so each tribunal would be able to do this.

I think burying should be allowed if you’re planning on coming back within x amount of time. (three hours?) also, if you are a long way from Teron (ie. Orwyan or other islands) you should be able to bury or drop them for a longer duration of time.

But I guess if someone makes a habit of it, they can be subject to the interpretation of their actions. At least the penalty is well-defined so people can start trying to avoid it.


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 Post subject: Re: Adventurer's Guild - Note from Paeru
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:46 pm 
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What's happens to those not part of a tribunal? Just log off with the no save stuff as designed.


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 Post subject: Re: Adventurer's Guild - Note from Paeru
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:22 pm 
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Trosis wrote:
I guess the speeding reference makes sense. And that’s fair.
I just don’t want to see things blow up if/when the first person feels like they’ve been unfairly removed from the guild. Because this seems fairly objective. Maybe I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the Rules Manager of old, when interpretation of the rules was a big controversy. Hence my request for straight-forward, well-defined guidelines.

I think giving tribunal guards one set of Wands would be acceptable. Because it would allow your tribunal members to have an advantage. Maybe we could increase the count to three of each wand instead of two, so each tribunal would be able to do this.

I think burying should be allowed if you’re planning on coming back within x amount of time. (three hours?) also, if you are a long way from Teron (ie. Orwyan or other islands) you should be able to bury or drop them for a longer duration of time.

But I guess if someone makes a habit of it, they can be subject to the interpretation of their actions. At least the penalty is well-defined so people can start trying to avoid it.


Remember, this is not a tribunal benefit, but a personal character benefit. Until pretty recently only one of the tribunals even had someone to use the wands for them. Tribunals already have the advantage of resurrection, but if you're suggesting tribunal NPCs losing the ability to use those wands would stop them from being stashed on tribunal NPCs, maybe you're onto something.


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 Post subject: Re: Adventurer's Guild - Note from Paeru
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Just to clarify, in case my intent was miscommunicated.
I am not in favor of removing the ability for tribunal guards to use wands.
Sorry for trying to help. I’m out.


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 Post subject: Re: Adventurer's Guild - Note from Paeru
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:37 pm 
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Trosis wrote:
Just to clarify, in case my intent was miscommunicated.
I am not in favor of removing the ability for tribunal guards to use wands.
Sorry for trying to help. I’m out.


Perhaps I wasn't being very clear either, my take on what you were saying is that this issue is something intrinsic to the value of the action being taken. IE: People are going to abuse something this powerful if it's capable of being abused, and that's why you were instead offering ways to mitigate the impact, instead of addressing the abuse.

By that idea, if there are tribunal NPCs that can use these items, tribunal members are invariably going to leave them on the tribunal NPCs eventually, regardless of the reminders given by an NPC.

Taking away tribunal NPCs ability to use them would be one way to lower the incidence of leaving them on tribunal NPCs, and a way of addressing one form of the abuse. Rot timers, death rot, charge limitation, etc, there are a lot of other options that could address this and other forms, but they all have real costs to the usefulness of the items to everyone.

It would be preferred for characters to just let the items go away as intended, but you don't have anything to be sorry for, it's helpful to see reasons why that might not be happening as intended.


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