Shattered Kingdoms
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REMINDER: Botting is illegal
https://www.shatteredkingdoms.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=22629		 Page 2 of 6
Author:  Dulrik [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
help rules2

5. NO BOTS -- Because Shattered Kingdoms is a roleplaying mud, this
naturally precludes the usage of client program features, such as triggers,
to automate your character to take or respond to an action OR to prevent
yourself from being logged out. You may use triggers to modify how info is
presented to you, such as to highlight or gag text, but if you aren't at the
keyboard, your character must void out in the same amount of time as normal.

That seems pretty clear to me. It's exactly what I just said in my last two posts.
Author:  grep [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
Dulrik wrote:
help rules2

5. NO BOTS -- Because Shattered Kingdoms is a roleplaying mud, this
naturally precludes the usage of client program features, such as triggers,
to automate your character to take or respond to an action OR to prevent
yourself from being logged out. You may use triggers to modify how info is
presented to you, such as to highlight or gag text, but if you aren't at the
keyboard, your character must void out in the same amount of time as normal.

That seems pretty clear to me. It's exactly what I just said in my last two posts.


I really, really, really don't intend to make this a rules lawyering, hair-splitting, troll summoning discussion, but I want to try to make sure I communicate successfully here, so here goes an attempt.

Rule 5 suffers from a problem many rules suffer from. That problem is very bad writing. Communication is about making sure someone understands you; if someone misunderstands, it's generally thought to be the speaker's problem and responsibility from a communication perspective. It isn't about wrong and right, but it is about success and failure to communicate. Right now a lot of rules are written very horribly.

Rule 5 has no fewer than three appositive phrases and two comma splices in as many sentences. I don't know what more we could do to make two sentences so inaccessible. If you try to diagram them, it becomes unclear where certain prepositional phrases are even in operation.

Why not try more direct language? Don't be afraid to use periods. Even just putting it in standard order helps a lot:

Quote:
5. NO BOTS. This rule naturally forbids the usage of client program features, because Shattered Kingdoms is a roleplaying mud. These forbidden features include functions to automate your character, to respond to an action, or to prevent yourself from being logged out. You may use client program features to modify how information is displayed. These permitted features can include highlighting or gagging text. Your character must void out in the same amount of time as normal if you aren't at the keyboard.


Even then, I fail to see where setting an alias, but not entering it, counts as "reacting" to a situation. There's no "action" from the character at all. You would still, in fact, void out in the same amount of time as normal no matter what your "elemental" alias happened to be set to, whether it's "cast 'conjure elemental' fire" or "blink;blink;blink." Are you making the suggestions that it would count as automating your character despite the action not being, well, automatic?
Author:  Edoras [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
Yes, that is automating your character. When you as the player are no longer deciding what to do, but rather, your trigger is, then your character is being automated.
Author:  grep [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
Edoras wrote:
Yes, that is automating your character. When you as the player are no longer deciding what to do, but rather, your trigger is, then your character is being automated.


You decide what to do when you type the alias. "If my elemental needs conjuring, conjure it." At least, these are two potential interpretations. Two valid ones. Whichever one D likes, that's how to go, but the one you explain is not the only interpretation one can understand after reading the rule about it.
Author:  Cordance [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
Grep it counts as altering the command you are entering. In short my example with backstab you could preset your alias target as the target you want hit then spam it twice and hit the target you can. The example I have used already has a coded solution but you can see how the "bot" is doing the work not me in the trigger situation.

The question becomes a little more grey if I have a triage heal button script. A single button that heals the lowest member seems against the rules. Where a 9 button version where it highlights which position I should heal seems OK. However if my buttons auto populates the names from the info command it is not OK. Does this seem right Dulrik or should we just stay completely away from those ideas.
Author:  Trosis [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
I want to think that any 'if/then' statement, with the then being any action your character makes, would be botting? Am I being too simplistic?
Author:  grep [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
Maybe I just haven't been simplistic enough. I really thought I was being prudent this whole time... this kind of feels awful. :P
Author:  Cordance [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
Trosis wrote:
I want to think that any 'if/then' statement, with the then being any action your character makes, would be botting? Am I being too simplistic?

Sounds about right. Your code can not perform any logic choices for you. However it can present logic answers for you to enter. The second part of that seems to be where the confusion comes from. It can not act on logic only present it for you to act on.
Author:  grep [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
Cordance wrote:
Trosis wrote:
I want to think that any 'if/then' statement, with the then being any action your character makes, would be botting? Am I being too simplistic?

Sounds about right. Your code can not perform any logic choices for you. However it can present logic answers for you to enter. The second part of that seems to be where the confusion comes from. It can not act on logic only present it for you to act on.


"You've been blinded! Press F1 to use an eye washer!"

vs.

"Press F1. You will wash your eye balls if you need to!"

It just seems like we're looking at a division that's horrendously murky. Both use a trigger, but neither send information to the MUD without you issuing a command. Where do we say one is okay and the other isn't if neither of those situations are different?
Author:  Trosis [ Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
grep wrote:
Cordance wrote:
Trosis wrote:
I want to think that any 'if/then' statement, with the then being any action your character makes, would be botting? Am I being too simplistic?

Sounds about right. Your code can not perform any logic choices for you. However it can present logic answers for you to enter. The second part of that seems to be where the confusion comes from. It can not act on logic only present it for you to act on.


"You've been blinded! Press F1 to use an eye washer!"

vs.

"Press F1. You will wash your eye balls if you need to!"

It just seems like we're looking at a division that's horrendously murky. Both use a trigger, but neither send information to the MUD without you issuing a command. Where do we say one is okay and the other isn't if neither of those situations are different?


I feel like either of those options are fine. Its just text output. You could have one for your entire fight. "your health is at 20 percent. quaff heals or recall now"
You are able to have your triggers tell you how you should act in battle, right? They just cant act for you. I dont see where the confusion lies. I of course haven't set up any triggers anyway, so my opinion is mildly irrelevant. lol
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