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 Post subject: Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:55 pm 
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The impression I get is that Dulrik doesn't like the idea of the One-Button Death Knight, but the way he came out on triggers... it's a slippery slope that eventually winds up hurting the wrong people.

I originally wrote the grepinfo add-on for some people with eye problems who couldn't read the info command fast enough, for example. Those people are, in theory, violating the rules by using the plugin *I* wrote. They could get punished because of something I did, more or less. In spite of unofficial help I got from a few immortals with the project, people can have characters deleted because of something I gave them. That's not a good feeling to have. :P


Last edited by grep on Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:54 am
Posts: 606
SK Character: Caric
grep wrote:

"You've been blinded! Press F1 to use an eye washer!"

vs.

"Press F1. You will wash your eye balls if you need to!"

It just seems like we're looking at a division that's horrendously murky. Both use a trigger, but neither send information to the MUD without you issuing a command. Where do we say one is okay and the other isn't if neither of those situations are different?


The problem is not with either of those commands the problem is if your trigger presses F1 for you.
If I have gathered the spirit of the rule.
Both of these commands are OK, unless you have a trigger set up to make F1 your eye washer. The trigger can tell you exactly what to do doesnt matter what it is could tell you the next fifteen lines of text to type. So long as it doesnt alter something to do something else.
For your eye washer example. You can not have a trigger that changes F1 to eye washer maco then have a trigger to change F1 to wield weapon in the case of the disarm. Or be bash if you dont need either of those commands. The reason being you could just spam F1 it is the same as having a bot scripted to do the action for you.
However if F1 is eye washer and F2 is rearm and F3 is bash. Your trigger can say F1.F2.F1.F3. so you know what to press. You can play Simon says you cant play Simon said.


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 Post subject: Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:54 am
Posts: 606
SK Character: Caric
grep wrote:
The impression I get is that Dulrik doesn't like the idea of the One-Button Death Knight, but the way he came out on triggers... it's a slippery slope that eventually winds up hurting the wrong people.

I originally wrote the grepinfo add-on for some people with eye problems who couldn't read the info command fast enough, for example. Those people are, in theory, violating the rules by using the plugin *I* wrote. They could get punished because of something I did, more or less. That's not a good feeling to have. :P

If I am correct in understanding how the code works yes your code is a bot by D's terms. If it is a 9 button system and you play whack a mole healing style its OK.


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 Post subject: Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:08 pm 
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Would something that affects nothing but logouts reasonably count here? I have to go outside to smoke, and am often in a position to wind up gone 'just' past long enough to disconnect, but with the thief/dehoarding code, I don't want to disconnect unintentionally, so every 5-8 minutes, my client sends 'time' so I don't disconnect from happening to be afk 2-3 minutes too long to stay connected and wind up losing equipment over it. Since it is something which does not affect anything but keeps me from accidental logouts, would this be considered acceptable?


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 Post subject: Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:08 pm 
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Location: Yacolt, Washington
amandagreathouse wrote:
Would something that affects nothing but logouts reasonably count here? I have to go outside to smoke, and am often in a position to wind up gone 'just' past long enough to disconnect, but with the thief/dehoarding code, I don't want to disconnect unintentionally, so every 5-8 minutes, my client sends 'time' so I don't disconnect from happening to be afk 2-3 minutes too long to stay connected and wind up losing equipment over it. Since it is something which does not affect anything but keeps me from accidental logouts, would this be considered acceptable?


That would get you deleted.


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 Post subject: Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:13 pm 
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Wow, [REDACTED], considering it does nothing I don't already do, doesn't do anything for skills or spells, and has literally no affect on anyone or anything, and doesn't even produce a visible display of any kind. If I can't even go out to smoke a cigarette without worrying about a character being deleted, and wind up being deleted for that, I will likely quit playing, because I have 0 desire to be chained to my computer to the point of not being able to have one in order to play a game. Maybe the auto logout should take 5-10 minutes longer.


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 Post subject: Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:19 pm 
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amandagreathouse wrote:
Wow, dirty, considering it does nothing I don't already do, doesn't do anything for skills or spells, and has literally no affect on anyone or anything, and doesn't even produce a visible display of any kind. If I can't even go out to smoke a cigarette without worrying about a character being deleted, and wind up being deleted for that, I will likely quit playing, because I have 0 desire to be chained to my computer to the point of not being able to have one in order to play a game. Maybe the auto logout should take 5-10 minutes longer.


It could be used to gather hours of play time which would help you hoard items and or leadership flags. That's one reason why it is a deletable offense.


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 Post subject: Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:23 pm 
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And if you were always responsive within minutes of someone trying to talk to/interact with you? Because I'm not talking about something where you just stay logged in indefinitely while afk, if that were to ever happen, it would pretty much HAVE to be an accident. I'm talking about being nonresponsive for 10-15 minutes while leaving to have a smoke/possibly being sidetracked to talk for a minute on the way back in.


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 Post subject: Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:25 pm 
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There's a zero tolerance policy on having anything sent to the MUD that cannot be associated with you, the human, pressing button(s) on your keyboard. If you get up and walk away from your computer, your character is expected to "void out" the same as any other inactive character. That is, in fact, one of the examples given for illegal triggers.

The rules are pretty clear on that.


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 Post subject: Re: REMINDER: Botting is illegal
PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 7:47 pm 
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grep wrote:
There's a zero tolerance policy on having anything sent to the MUD that cannot be associated with you, the human, pressing button(s) on your keyboard. If you get up and walk away from your computer, your character is expected to "void out" the same as any other inactive character. That is, in fact, one of the examples given for illegal triggers.

The rules are pretty clear on that.


amandagreathouse wrote:
And if you were always responsive within minutes of someone trying to talk to/interact with you? Because I'm not talking about something where you just stay logged in indefinitely while afk, if that were to ever happen, it would pretty much HAVE to be an accident. I'm talking about being nonresponsive for 10-15 minutes while leaving to have a smoke/possibly being sidetracked to talk for a minute on the way back in.


amandagreathouse wrote:
If I can't even go out to smoke a cigarette without worrying about a character being deleted, and wind up being deleted for that, I will likely quit playing, because I have 0 desire to be chained to my computer to the point of not being able to have one in order to play a game. Maybe the auto logout should take 5-10 minutes longer.


If I get deleted, I get deleted. I type time at least that often while I'm at the computer, and there are times where I don't enter anything else for just as long while still there. If I get a character deleted, that'll be that, and I'll move on to a different mud. I'm a lot more addicted to cigarettes than I am SK.


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